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09 September 2009 @ 02:24 pm
Flash Fiction Online is a Queer-unfriendly market.  
Via rm :

Flash Fiction Online rejected a rather beautiful ad for Crossed Genres' upcoming LGBTQ issue.

The reason given was: “Sorry, I don’t accept sexually themed ads.”

Check out the ad in question.

If that wasn't bad enough, here's a quote from the following email exchange*. From Jake of Flash Fiction Online:

If marriage, sex, the family, and society were properly linked, then society would specially support the natural source of the fecundity of the human race and the stability of its societies: the monogamous, child-bearing family.

In a nutshell, then: as a society, I believe that we are completely screwed up about the relationships of family, sex, and society. I reiterate that straights have done this. We are to blame.

And it’s because we’ve done this that we think, as a culture, that “gay marriage” and “straight marriage” are essentially the same. It makes us think that the issue is fairness and equality. It leads us to view the issue as a civil rights issue, as you do. I sympathize, deeply, because I thought the same thing for a long time.


Well then. Another market I won't ever be subbing to again. On the plus side, though, Crossed Genres now has my attention despite every issue being themed**, and I shall be keeping up on their sub guidelines now.






* I picked an example where I think he's actually saying what he means, rather than falling into accidental Failpits, as he does elsewhere. In other words, I think all the Fail in this example is intentional.

** I actually like themes; they spark ideas. But normally when I look at magazine markets I already have a story in hand, and I go "Oh, themed, won't want this story I didn't write for a theme then" and move on, forgetting to check what the theme is.





ETA1: In response to Jake's incredibly inaccurate assumption that the het nuclear family is The Norm And Always Has Been, zwol is asking where to start looking for "serious research about the prevalence of these [listed] various [relationship] institutions and their variations across time, culture, and class".

ETA2: seanmarkey notes in comments that Beth Wodzinski just twittered: I just donated to PFLAG in honor of Jake Freivald and Flash Fiction Online. Won't you join me? elsmi and I think this is an excellent idea, and are donating now. Won't you join us?

ETA3: Oh and, as pointed out in comments, The FFO editor is poly-unfriendly too. I missed that on the first pass.

(Incidentally, if I haven't responded to you in lj it's because the tendonitis hit and there was a baby to play with and .... I shall very soon. This just came first because... well... I couldn't really not post about it. Too angry.)






 
 
Current Mood: pissed offpissed off
 
 
( 95 comments — Leave a comment )
Haddayr Copley-Woodshaddayr on September 9th, 2009 09:44 pm (UTC)
wow.

WOW WOW WOW.

Okay; I appreciate the heads-up. No submissions to them, then, which is too bad, since most of my shorts are very short.
shweta_narayan: aieeeeshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 09:50 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it sucks when markets (and, you know, venues for reading stuff) make themselves unavailable with their own stupid bigotry. We don't have enough good markets/venues, dammit.

Having said that though, there are still quite a few wonderful places for flash fic. I do hope you sell to 'em soon so I can have more of your stories to read :)
gwynnega: Romana silvernatasha Nimongwynnega on September 9th, 2009 09:51 pm (UTC)
Ey yi yi. Definitely won't be submitting to them.
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:18 pm (UTC)
Crossed Genres looks cool though!
(no subject) - lenora_rose on September 10th, 2009 12:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
Kari Sperringla_marquise_de_ on September 9th, 2009 09:53 pm (UTC)
Oh, good grief. That is deeply deeply cr*p of them.
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:20 pm (UTC)
And apparently the normative bigotry dressed up as social consciousness pisses me off even more than garden variety normative bigotry, because it's pretending to a thoughtful ethical position beyond privilege+self-righteousness, and it's not.

So it comes across to me as disingenuous as well as ethically corrupt, and so it's seriously smarmy.
(no subject) - la_marquise_de_ on September 10th, 2009 08:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
El Coyote Gordo: buggysupergee on September 9th, 2009 10:02 pm (UTC)
Blogging this. Thanx.
shweta_narayan: aieeeeshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:21 pm (UTC)
Thank you!
I've submitted stuff to these guys. Makes me feel rather ill, just now.
Gah.
Jules (writing when she gets work): mod goddessseajules on September 9th, 2009 10:07 pm (UTC)
On top of queer-unfriendly, either he's making the same fallacious assumption a lot of homophobes do, that all straight, monogamous, long-term relationships result in children, or he's one of those asshats who would encourage my husband to divorce me and marry a woman without medical impediments toward conception, pregnancy, or labor. Because any sexual relationship that doesn't end in babies is not a relationship to be supported nor considered equal with a narrow definition of "family," apparently.
Becca Stareyesbeccastareyes on September 9th, 2009 10:19 pm (UTC)
For that matter, he seems to be assuming straight (serial?) monogamy with children is some kind of human universal. It's common enough, I'll grant him, but even my middle school world history class* tells me that even ignoring the current GLTB movement, it's no human universal.

* Or a reading of the Children's Bible Mom got me when I was curious about what religion was all about.
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - seajules on September 9th, 2009 10:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - seajules on September 9th, 2009 10:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Sherwood Smithsartorias on September 9th, 2009 10:19 pm (UTC)
What gets me is this total unawareness of the evolution of marriage here in the West. Forget the rest of the world--this fellow seems to be saying, as only the West counts . . . but even so, um, no. Marriage has changed meaning quite radically over the centuries.

And there are plenty of Christians who feel that people who wish to form a family and be blessed in their union by their faith ought to have their chance.
shweta_narayan: mangatarshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:25 pm (UTC)
I don't know enough about the evolution of marriage in any given culture to post about it. I only know snippets, and unlike this guy I'm aware of my ignorance here.

Would love to see it posted about more, and becoming more of a general part of the dialogue, though...
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sartorias on September 9th, 2009 10:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zwol on September 9th, 2009 10:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dichroic on September 10th, 2009 03:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sartorias on September 9th, 2009 10:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zwol on September 9th, 2009 10:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Samantha Hendersonsamhenderson on September 9th, 2009 10:26 pm (UTC)
That's an...I'll put it kindly -- an ASTONISHING letter.
Thanks for posting - one flash market off the list!
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:37 pm (UTC)
Yes, to put it kindly, I am ASTONISHED! :)
Alan Yeealan_yee on September 9th, 2009 10:33 pm (UTC)
Oh, I'm so glad you wrote about this. I'll probably write up something about it later today or sometime tomorrow.

Before the guilty party was revealed, I was getting nervous about it maybe being a market I actually enjoyed and respected. It's not a huge loss since I write very little flash fiction, but still, it's not a good feeling having to scratch a potential market off your list.
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:38 pm (UTC)
I look forward to what you write!

Were there reasons you were getting nervous about it? If there were red flags I in my het-privilege missed, I'd like to become more aware of them for next time...
(no subject) - alan_yee on September 9th, 2009 10:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Er, to clarify - shweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - alan_yee on September 11th, 2009 12:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 12:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 10:39 pm (UTC)
And the ad they submitted is just beautiful.

Isn't it? I want to know those people! They look awesome.

Very glad to link to Crossed Genres. They look like good people, and I think it's a lovely irony if Jake's bigotry gets them the publicity that the ad would have :)
(no subject) - metafrantic on September 10th, 2009 03:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 09:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
asakiyume: Beech Girlasakiyume on September 9th, 2009 10:49 pm (UTC)
That's depressing..... I just linked to a story from that zine a few days ago; had no idea the editor's politics were like that.

But Crossed Genres is definitely, definitely cool, and that ad is gorgeous.
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 11:05 pm (UTC)
the editor's politics don't stop some of the stories from being awesome, of course. That was a problem with Helix, too.

Though, on that note, it may be time to link to Transcriptase again -- lots of stories previously at Helix are now there.
Marshall Payne: David Bowiemarshallpayne1 on September 9th, 2009 10:56 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up. I just posted about it, after pulling a sub I had there.

http://marshallpayne1.livejournal.com/78503.html
shweta_narayan: mangatarshweta_narayan on September 9th, 2009 11:07 pm (UTC)
Thanks for posting!
I hope we get to see your sub published somewhere else soon :)
(no subject) - marshallpayne1 on September 9th, 2009 11:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
dsmoendsmoen on September 9th, 2009 11:39 pm (UTC)
Hmmph, and it's a new pro market, too.

I'm not someone who eliminates markets because editors have views I disagree with [1], but I do tend to put those markets at the bottom of the list, if only because I tend to write things they wouldn't go for.

I'm glad this issue came out (so to speak) because it means that everyone reading this post (and related posts on other LJs) now knows about Crossed Genres and other lgbtq-friendly and alternative-relationship markets.

[1] Being of the pragmatic view that likely every editor will fail at one thing I care deeply about whether I know it or not....
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 12:13 am (UTC)
I've had this argument with you too, and would prefer not to again.

"Pragmatism" too often means not changing things that are fucked up; I realize you do work to change what you can in the ways you consider effective, and we can disagree respectfully on that. But I find the word triggery. It's according inherent virtue to something that has been used too often as a reason to keep me down.

For starters, pragmatically speaking, writing is a bloody stupid thing to do and we should all stop.
(no subject) - dsmoen on September 10th, 2009 01:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 01:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dsmoen on September 10th, 2009 02:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 02:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dsmoen on September 10th, 2009 03:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - garote on September 11th, 2009 10:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
stillnotboredstillnotbored on September 9th, 2009 11:48 pm (UTC)
Holy crap and wow...
shweta_narayan: angryshweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 12:13 am (UTC)
Yeah :(
Dr. Kvetchrose_lemberg on September 10th, 2009 01:21 am (UTC)
Now I am feeling lucky I didn't send them the golem short. Bye bye, FFO.
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 01:28 am (UTC)
But hello, Crossed Genres :)

And hi you! Good to see you around.
(no subject) - rose_lemberg on September 10th, 2009 01:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 01:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rose_lemberg on September 10th, 2009 01:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 01:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rose_lemberg on September 10th, 2009 02:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 02:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rose_lemberg on September 10th, 2009 02:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 02:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
Sean Markeyseanemarkey on September 10th, 2009 01:31 am (UTC)
Just thought I'd point this out:

Beth Wodzinski, who had a story published at FFO about a year and a half ago, twittered this:

I just donated to PFLAG in honor of Jake Freivald and Flash Fiction Online. Won't you join me?

**

pflag = http://bit.ly/kjLBR
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 01:40 am (UTC)
Awesome! I shall edit to suggest that too :)
(no subject) - seanemarkey on September 10th, 2009 01:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 01:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - alan_yee on September 10th, 2009 02:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 02:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - evilrbtmonkey on September 10th, 2009 03:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 03:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - alan_yee on September 10th, 2009 03:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dsmoen on September 10th, 2009 02:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
Dichroicdichroic on September 10th, 2009 03:20 am (UTC)
Yeah - I'm - but - you just--

You don't have to look very far either in time or place to realize that small nuclear families are very far from the norm over human history. I strongly suspect stable gay are far more historically common than we tend to think but so often they've been either hidden or just not talked about that it's hard to tell. However, it is pretty crystal clear that the multiple-adult family is the most common family model, either living in one house or very close together, and you don't have to go any further than our own most common childhood reading. Look at the family at the end of Little Women (Good Wives if you're being pedantic) or the one in Eight Cousins. Look at all those families from the Melendys to the Bobbsey Twins who couldn't function without beinging in paid employees to essentially serve as surrogate family members.

I also suspect that the most healthy model I've seen for families today is among some of the poly families I've 'met' online, as long as the welfare of the children is a real focus of the family. They certainly seem to provide more support for the adults involved. (Yesterday my husband left for a month. I was talking about it in LJ comments with someone whose husband has just left for an academic year, about how it's always harder on the one who stays home - but he has his other husband as support, whereas I have an empty apartment. I can't help but be envious.)
shweta_narayan: mangatarshweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 03:24 am (UTC)
...Yeah.
tbh I don't know how monogamous couples outside cultures which assume plenty of family help manage children at all.
(no subject) - dichroic on September 10th, 2009 09:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 10th, 2009 09:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dichroic on September 11th, 2009 12:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 01:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dichroic on September 11th, 2009 01:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 01:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - garote on September 11th, 2009 10:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 09:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Jo Waltonpapersky on September 10th, 2009 12:46 pm (UTC)
*gnash*
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 12:17 am (UTC)
Yeah. GAH.
Jen Volanttacithydra on September 11th, 2009 12:12 am (UTC)
I'm collecting commentary here, and am linking to this (if you want me to remove your link, just respond to this comment and tell me so).
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 12:16 am (UTC)
Sounds great! I'm happy to be collected -- and thank you for taking on that rather daunting task!

FYI I know alan_yee posted too, and he's new to lj so I'm not sure you'd find his post without a pointer.
(no subject) - tacithydra on September 11th, 2009 12:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 12:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tacithydra on September 11th, 2009 12:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 12:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
Athena Andreadis, aka Helivoyhelivoy on September 11th, 2009 05:09 am (UTC)
Crossed Genres
I had both a recent long interview and a story in Crossed Genres, (in the July and August issue, respectively) and I know the founders/editors personally. They are smart, funny, articulate, nice, learned, meticulous. Their magazine fills a tremendous need, providing a home to interstitial stories in today's climate of increasing specialized subdivisions. I feel happy and proud to have my work in their magazine. When I read about the ad rejection, I got the eerie feeling I'm living in a parallel universe. Or that humans are really several distinct species that happen to be inter-fertile without having anything else in common.

Athena Andreadis

http://www.starshipreckless.com/
http://crossedgenres.com/archives/008/interview-athena-andreadis/
shweta_narayanshweta_narayan on September 11th, 2009 08:56 pm (UTC)
Re: Crossed Genres
Hi Athena!

Your story is how I knew about CG in the first place :)
(I owe you email majorly and am so very behind, but want to say now, I liked your story much!)
Re: Crossed Genres - helivoy on September 11th, 2009 09:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Crossed Genres - helivoy on September 12th, 2009 07:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Crossed Genres - shweta_narayan on September 12th, 2009 07:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
( 95 comments — Leave a comment )